26 Feb 2024 13:33:32
Jammy Toffees.
{Ed025's Note - it should be the 10 points paid back for me George..
26 Feb 2024 14:03:24
Ed025 I posted at beginning of the process a suitable points deduction would be 7 or 8. 10 was harsh. 40% reduction embarrasses slightly the original panel imo.
{Ed025's Note - it should have been a financial penalty or a transfer embargo for me George, our overspend was mainly due to raised loan charge interest rates rising which was beyond our control mate, of course im a bit biased though..
26 Feb 2024 14:16:23
I’ve just seen this, incredible!
If it were ourselves (or any other ‘normal’ club) that would be that but oh no, top six and a tiny handful of others (Everton! ) seem to be exempt!
Please, please, please, Brentford, Forest, Palace and Luton, get your act together and send these cheats down!
Hopefully this action will galvanise the other teams around them to pull their fingers out!
{Ed025's Note - i dont think you grasp what the reason for the overspend was for Cleggy, they have done us no favours at all mate, im actually gutted we never got the full 10 points back..
26 Feb 2024 14:17:26
Think they are incredibly fortunate, and there remains the second outstanding charge (along with Forest) which must be concluded by Monday 08th April, so they could be sliding down another snake yet.
Whilst I maintain Everton are incredibly fortunate and this points sanction for THIS season still does not in my view fairly compensate the teams relegated as a result of Everton’s proven breaches which have resulted in the independent panel’s stayed six point deduction,
I do not think our own case is as strong as Leicesters or Burnley and I hope they secure fair financial recompense from Everton when all the findings have been reached as this proves it was not a fair playing field for the teams relegated.
Wolves have been very transparent in releasing, selling star players and not entertaining any new transfers in order to stay in compliance where as Everton have clearly more than once, been found to have deliberately spent far more than was permissible.
However, if you were an Everton fan you would still be LIVID how these cases can be brought, completed, sanctioned, before Citeh have been required to answer even one of their reported over one hundred alleged infractions.
{Ed025's Note - i expect we will still get another 6 point deduction Cof 92, and thats why i dont think we should accept the appeal decision mate, the amount of overspend has not been updated for 10 years while prices have risen as we all know, i dont believe in FFP myself as if i won the lottery no one is telling me what i can buy and how much i spend, its draconian..
26 Feb 2024 15:14:06
Excellent ? post Class.
26 Feb 2024 15:16:31
Ed025 FFP is one of the best things to happen to the sport. If it wasn't there, the game would be ruined at the highest level.
{Ed025's Note - its unfair for me George, the bigger revenue you have the more you can spend, its making the bigger clubs with the biggest crowds and bigger sponsorships even more elite, it ensures that no middle or lower tier teams can ever compete with the sly 6, thats how i see it anyway mate..
26 Feb 2024 15:25:22
Please enlighten me Ed 25 - what was the overspend for then?
{Ed025's Note - it was mainly due to the building cost and interest rates going up for the new ground mate..
26 Feb 2024 17:09:03
Should have taken a fixed rate loan or reduced spending when rates went up, that's what the rest of us have to do so we don't overspend Vs our budget!
{Ed025's Note - if you have a crystal ball maybe Canada, the pandemic sent prices of building materials sky high mate and who could have forecast that and the hike in interest rates, the price went up from £500m to £750m for Bramley Moore and that should have been taken into consideration..
26 Feb 2024 17:48:29
Actually Class, given that both Everton and Forest are being charged in respect of the 2022/ 23 season (in which we were relegated) , if both are subsequently found to have actually infringed FFP, our case against both is as strong as Leicester’s.
{Ed025's Note - none of the clubs have any case Clueless, it was found in the report that our breech did not effect the relegation of any other club..
26 Feb 2024 18:07:23
The rules are there for everyone (except Man City of course) , if Everton have exceeded them, then they should be punished. Two of the nine infringements have been found by the panel to be technically incorrect therefore I would say that the points deduction should be more in line with that - should be a seven point deduction not six.
{Ed025's Note - everyone has their own opinion i suppose Cleggy, mine is that we still got shafted and it should have either been a monetary fine or a transfer embargo, after all the sly 6 who wanted to abandon the league and set up the new European Super League got a slap on the wrist..how is that fair mate?, i can actually understand the bitterness because you went down and we stayed up, but that was basically because we earned more points..
26 Feb 2024 18:29:26
All the more reason to have taken a fixed rate loan when rates were down Ed.
Either way they could have stopped spending on players etc once rates went up but didn't, so made a conscious decision.
2nd charge should carry a higher penalty for a repeat offender, not sure if it does though?
{Ed025's Note - hindsight is a wonderful thing Canada, on the 2nd charge it seems likely that it will be either a fine or an embargo mate as some of the charges are part of the first points deduction case..
26 Feb 2024 19:47:58
Ed - that was in respect of the previous season (and is possibly arguable within a different forum anyway) but we cannot prejudge what the panel will say in respect of the 2022/ 23) - hence my earlier comment said ‘if they are found guilty’.
{Ed025's Note - oh we will be found guilty Clueless i have no doubt about that mate, but because some of the charges are related to seasons which we have already been punished for it will not be as harsh hopefully...double jeopardy..
26 Feb 2024 23:32:44
I got to say I ding agree with ffp on any level but with what happened to leeds I want to see Everton relegated and city and chealsea thrown out of the leauge and pep has to stay at the club!
Personally I don’t mind Everton but if Everton was leeds we’d of been deducted 30 points by now.
27 Feb 2024 06:52:06
Sorry Ed you won’t get much sympathy coming from Leeds fans concerning the points deductions.
Leeds were hammered by the EFL for not abiding to the rules like Everton, whichever league it is or whatever excuses are made.
Everton are very lucky to have these 4 points given back, we weren’t given that privilege.
Justice should be served to all teams who break the rules.
{Ed025's Note - i will have that OP and yes Everton deserve sanctions for breaking the rules, but it has to be realistic mate and fair to all teams, where are the rules when it comes to City and Chelsea?..
27 Feb 2024 07:34:37
My only involvement in this debate, which is far, far more complexed than rags like the currant bun would have you believe, is to agree with you OP. And also Ed on the Citeh and Chelsea Rothschilds, although their cases are yet even more complexed than the Everton ones.
{Ed025's Note - we got done for 1 breach Brighty whereas the like of City have got 115 cases to answer for mate going back a number of years, so we have nothing to compare our punishment with and for me they should have been sanctioned first..
27 Feb 2024 09:27:37
100% Ed every team needs to be sanctioned if they break the rules, that definitely goes for Man City, Chelsea and Forest.
{Ed025's Note - i dont have a problem with that OP, i just dont think its fair that we are the test case mate when City,s cheating started years before us..
27 Feb 2024 09:51:31
Ed - inevitably some of the ‘charges’ relate to two years already considered under the previous investigation, because charges always relate to a rolling three year period. The key point this time round is that against the background of the previous year’s losses, Everton failed to address the resultant overspend position. For example whilst they made net profit on transfers, due to the large receipts for Richarlison and Gordon, they did nothing to address the significantly high wage to turnover ratio - in fact the opposite. Richarlison had been on £90k a week and Gordon on only £10k. New signings Onana and Tarkovski were made joint 3rd highest earners on £100k and returning Idrissa Gueye was on £80k. All three were very significant players for the club that season and played a key role in their remaining in the Prem. It’s the club’s failure to amend its ways, despite very clear knowledge of the requirements to do so, that should lead to at least six points deduction.
Returning to the earlier point re impact on other clubs staying in the Prem and any claim they might have against the Toffees - the above point alone would be enough for the layman on the street to see validity in the argument of impact - any panel concluding otherwise would be failing in its duty.
{Ed025's Note - i get what you are saying Clueless but all our dealing were done with consultation with the Premier league who were overseeing things in the latter stages mate, you do make some valid points though and if i was one of the other teams who got relegated i would probably be saying the same thing..
27 Feb 2024 10:59:33
What is a realistic financial penalty to a Billionaire?
This whole situation, start to finish is a quaqmire. There has to be a quicker response to any found or suspected breaches. To have any case exceed the season is unacceptable. Then if found guilty the defendant must have strict punishments enforced immediately be that transfer embargo or points deduction. Every case should be heard by an independent panel and all parties (all football clubs) should have signed an agreement binding them to the decision. No appeals dragging on.
The parameters for compliance should also be adjusted every year to reflect current costs, failing that som sort of linked increase should be applied.
The saddest part of all of this, no matter who the team, is the ones who suffer, really suffer, is the poor, neglected fan. Again!
{Ed025's Note - i cant argue with any of that Leodis, but city should have been the first case tried mate as their breaches go back a long time before us..
27 Feb 2024 11:40:07
Like I said Ed - Quagmire.
27 Feb 2024 11:41:16
Sorry Ed, the whole c.v. sending costs spiralling isn't the full [or adequate] explanation for the overspend. First and foremost, we were in the middle of the .c.v. when Everton finally received planning permission for their stadium. They never physically started their stadium construction until after the final lockdown. There was plenty of time to curb the spending or even postpone the start if costs were spiralling. Fair enough, costs may have spiralled since, however these overspends arise actually before construction started of the stadium. No doubt their costs forecast were going to increase in the future, but that's like me saying next years holiday, should I book it, is going to cost more than I thought; but it's cost me nothing until I do.
Remember, Everton also claimed the cost of c.v., empty stadium, Furlough costs etc was the highest in the EPL by a very significant amount.
{Ed025's Note - im not saying we are innocent in any of this Ani, mistakes and maybe even fraud were committed by Everton, we do deserve punishment but in my view the punishment was too harsh mate and they could have hit us with many other sanctions that would have been more fitting, but im bound to say that, for me City should have been first in line..