09 Mar 2021 09:20:52
I look at the game last night, like Villa and Wolves and many other games this season and I literally can’t understand how we have just lost that game. We create bucket loads of goal scoring chances, we generally boss more than 50% of the game yet we end up gifting the opposition a soft goal or two and end up losing. Moyes saying West Ham didn’t play well, it was only because we played better than them over most of the game, yet we lose.
By the same token we do sometimes win by playing the same game.
Cheap errors by certain players who are not up to the standard is my conclusion.
Of course our two new defenders have been injured most of the season hasn’t helped us one bit. I think if we can get a settled back line and I’m sorry but Cooper is not part of that, then hopefully with more class in midfield, as Klich for me has lost it, then we could be looking like winners, instead of “how the fcuk did we lose that gameâ€!
09 Mar 2021 09:39:05
OP. i am with you on most of what you say. We are definitely looking able to compete at this level and I just hope we can develop in to an "experienced" PL side. There is nothing glaringly wrong with these players
However.
Alioski, sorry mucka, just not first XI standard and holding up the progression of some of the younger talent in the U23s. Your salary can go towards more influential transfers without damaging the first team squad.
Dallas, for me nailed on as next seasons left back. Why buy a new one and relegate Dallas to the bench. He is as good as almost any left back the division, and scores too! And the bonus is he can do a job in midfield in the PL. Any spare money should be earmarked on improving the central midfield area where they need PL quality.
09 Mar 2021 09:43:27
I agree.
There are many games we have lost but shouldn’t.
I think chelsea, Leicester, mancs, Liverpool and possibly man city in first half of season are the teams that outplayed us.
The rest are down to our mistakes. That’s the difference between top and bottom. Less mistakes. Better quality and mainly settled defence.
I know he is an international but liorente was woeful. Maybe scared of injury again.
Mezzlier will come good. Ayling is good enough. Dallas fine. Raph brilliant. Bamford acceptable. Phillips ok. The rest are lacking and inconsistent.
09 Mar 2021 10:24:56
Thing is this is not about the quailty of players. Leauge 2 teams are more organised than us and better at defending set plays.
I know I bang on but if big sam Daivd moyes or pulis took over today the same players would become more organised and better at defending set plays. It is the basics and we must get better it is not acceptable
We keep saying improve this player and buy that player but money is a key factor. We will never be able to afford the players to play belisa way. For me the only answer is to focus on basics and improve
I’m not saying change style because that will affect us going forward which is great I’m just saying focus on being more organised and set plays
The reason we seem to struggle in front of goal is COD the other defence make us work hard while we give other teams the chance to score
It’s leauge 2 stuff in fact some of it is school boy stuff.
09 Mar 2021 10:40:42
Yeah because Pulis worked wonders at Sheff Weds didn't he
Hows Big Sam getting on at WBA, o that's right 2nd bottom
Great having an organised defence if u still lose or can't score.
09 Mar 2021 10:58:04
Bermo, yes you do bang on about it.
You may be right that Big Sam, Pulis, or Moyes may have a team that defended set pieces better than Bielsa does (at the moment) , but who the hell wants to pay good money on a season ticket to watch the dross that those characters produce for 90 minutes?
More importantly, what sponsors want to be associated with that level of play?
We are looking yo play entertaining football that gets neutrals wanting to watch. If that becomes the case then TV will want to show it. If that becomes the case sponsors will want yo be seen regularly on TV and so will want to sponsor us.
Simple business financial mucka
Just take yesterday. Yes Moyes has created a team that is doing well, but name me one player that lit up that match. A player who tried to do something unexpected, get the crowd on their feet?
Not one. They are functional, whist we were entertaining. We had a clutch of ex Championship players in our side but our interplay was far superior to their (hence the possession stats) .
This is our first year against this level of opposition. The opposition have been playing at this level for years.
Judge us when we have bedded in the Championship players who can play at this level.
Judge us when we have released those that are unable to improve.
Judge us when we have been able to finance incoming transfers that have been identified as required improvements.
Judge us when Bielsa has had the time to recognise how he is going to improve himself and his coaching team.
One question. have you ever paid for a season ticket yo watch a team managed by any of those managers you bang the drum for?
09 Mar 2021 11:00:34
Understand what you are saying but with the players we have under a coach like Moyes or Allardyce, we simply wouldn’t be creating any goal scoring opportunities, the best we can look forward to are nil nil draws, bit like when George Graham was at Elland Rd.
09 Mar 2021 11:21:55
That’s my point we can score so if we was organised at the back and better at set plays we’d be pushing champs leauge
I’m not saying change style just that our defending is not acceptable!
Big sam ain’t got the players or manager style to play like belisa but belisa should have the basic knowledge to get us defensive better
I would prefer to watch us play like Leeds than West Ham but that said I would accept playing worse for West Ham results
Who here would rather watch us finish 12th over 5th that’s madness
My point is we must be better at the basics and as for the comment on defending better than us at the moment belisa has had us for three years and we have got worse
My only point is we will never do well when the basics cost us and we are so bad at this it’s a joke. I’m just asking us to defend better than a non-leauge team which we don’t.
09 Mar 2021 11:29:45
Axe : ' judge us when Bielsa has had the time to recognise how he is going to improve himself and his coaching team ) '
hmm can you elaborate on this vague point Axe
As one of the very few things I agree with Berm is that in 3 years at Leeds Bielsa has shown he is simply not good enough on offensive and defensive corners, free kicks etc . (unlike say Sgt Howard Wilko's Leeds teams )
09 Mar 2021 12:03:56
By definition a high press play means you you commit more players forward which optimizes your chance of scoring more goals, of course this doesn’t come without risk because you are leaving more wider spaces behind that can be exploited. I’m sorry Berm but you can’t have 20 players in your match day squad. This system works very well if you’ve got all round quality players in your squad, we sadly don’t at the moment. The system is flawed but if there was a perfect system everybody would be playing it, n’est pas. At the moment set pieces are a issue for Bielsa currently, and he does need to find a solution and I believe he will. That Dawson goal last night was dreadful, such a soft goal and I agree you don’t need better players than what we have already to snuff out this constant goal scoring threat. He’s going to have work on that for sure if we’re going to do well next season.
09 Mar 2021 12:26:46
Bermo. what absolutely rubbish. I have cut and pasted your actual words out of your post so that nobody is twisting your words. "belisa has had us for three years and we have got worse"
2018-20.First season with Bielsa in charge. We ship 50 goals against. However, both Jansson and Cooper are voted in to the PFA Championship team of the year by their peers. Not some mickey mouse poll or biased supporters.
2019-20.so second season we ship 35 goals against. Is that not an improvement?
Oh, and to just reaffirm the improvement this time Ayling, White and Cooper are voted in to the PFA Championship team of the season (for good measure Phillips our DEFENSIVE midfielder is voted in to it too)
2020-21.so this season so far we have shipped 47 goals in a far, far superior league than the Championship (hence Fulham and WBA have been flirting with relegation. Sheffield Utd who were promoted 2 seasons ago are. Newcastle who were promoted a couple of seasons are, and Norwich went straight back down) .
What are you comparing this season with?
To put this season in context with anything it can only be THIS season.
As I write we are -3 on goal difference. Only 10 Premiership clubs have a better goal difference than us, and we are sitting 11th.
Seems to me we are doing well [Wolves (-9) , Palace (-17) , Soton (-11) , Burnley (-16) , Newcastle (-17) , Brighton (-8) , Fulham (-11) , WBA (-27) , and SheffUtd (-36) would all love some of Bielsa's defensive coaching]
These are just facts. Nothing emotive. Not me being controversial for the sake of if. Just facts. The same facts that show Bielsa to be very attack minded also show he is not weak on the defensive side of football, as you constantly try to imply.
09 Mar 2021 12:36:11
Bazooka
I thought it obvious. Bielsa, like most people in the world is striving to be a better version of himself, so there will always be in all of us a desire yo constantly improve. Why should Bielsa be any different from the norm?
For football managers it is easier to reflect on their performance than most humans as they have all manner of stats and videos to document improvements and also weaknesses. Who amongst wouldn't like to be able to reflect on past issues in minute detail and be able to use it as a pathway to progress?
Football managers also has prescribed periods of time (seasons) in which they have statistics to highlight areas of concern.
I can not believe that Bielsa is different to any other coach, in his or any sport, and does not use the end of a campaign to look for improvement.
(Example, selling Jansson and loaning White. There was a definite improvement)
(Is that less vague? )
09 Mar 2021 13:17:09
Axe
This is where Berm’s opinions become indefensible, how can you be playing worse when you win the Championship and get promoted ? I start to lose touch with the sanity in these kind of comments.!
09 Mar 2021 13:18:32
Thank you Axe for the detailed reply, yes much better.
Your example of improvement was replacing an inferior player Jannson for a superior player White.
But has he made improvement in himself and his coaching team in the coaching of offensive and defensive corners and free kicks with Leeds in the past 3 years? 🤔.
09 Mar 2021 13:23:59
Axe yet again you take me it if context
In three years we have got worse (at defending set plays) we have not improved and maybe have got worse certainly not better. that’s what I’m saying
And op I agree belisa style is perfect for Man City but as you say we don’t have 20 quailty players nor do we have the budget to get them
If a city fan said who is perfect replacement for pep I’d say belisa in fact I think he might even improve them but he ain’t got city he’s got Leeds and we need to play for the squad we have not the one we wish we had
As for the perfect style for our type of team I think moyes has nailed it much like wilko did years back what he has done at West Ham should be the template for all
Teams who should be bottom half but want to be 5th the table do g lie.
09 Mar 2021 13:34:19
Bazooka
I am sorry I don't have that detailed information to hand. But can I state again, we can not compare this season to either of Bielsa's previous 2 as we have reached the promised land and here it is much much harder
If I look at the basic stats for his first 2 seasons I can see he lowered the goals scored against us. 50 down to 35. As I say I don't have detailed info but I would like to think that some of that decrease was in the defensive set piece area
As for goals scored, we originally scored 73 goals which went up to 77 goals in our Championship winning season. Again I would like to think he had improve our offensive set piece
Its only a personal opinion, using facts that I have highlighted previously, but I believe Bielsa is improving (most people are)
09 Mar 2021 13:39:52
OP
Bermo seems to do it for the rise.
He is the Leeds Utd version of the Sussexes. no point in just just having a conversation when you can put in to it something controversial to pad it out. after all publicity is the lifeblood of a certain section of society these days
I am willing to read his views. I am willing to debate them. My only hope is he will bring to the table some facts one day that back up his point of view.
In essence I am a scientist, and he is a playwright. We are just made differently.
09 Mar 2021 13:49:52
Bermo, I cut and paste you! I told you that at the being of my post.
How the hell can I take you out of context?
BTW you have used that 'out of context' argument before with a few different posters in order to back track when they have challenged your myopic views. It didn't wash with them and it doesn't wash with me. At least have the kahunas to stick to your first comment and defend it.
So, give me researchable facts:-
How many goals did we concede from corners in 2018-19 season?
How many goals did we concede from corners in 2019-20 season?
How many goals did we concede from set pieces in 2018-19 season?
How many goals did we concede from set pieces in 2019-20 season?
If your going to make such claptrap comment least back them up.
And, to your final point regarding which you would prefer to support, a team in 5th or a team in 11th? that's easy. LEEDS UNITED.
09 Mar 2021 13:59:03
You’re right axe I take it back
Our defending of set plays is class and our defending is in no way a problem in fact I think our defending of set plays and in general is top class
Now don’t I look silly
Anyway on to the next game and no doubt another conceded goal from a corner!
09 Mar 2021 13:59:41
Berm, you might want to do some research as to how much Moyes has spent compared to Bielsa on players, I honestly don’t know but I’m sure it’s a lot more, plus he was gifted with some already top class players.
09 Mar 2021 14:42:27
Op I’m glad you brought this up
So net spend at West Ham. this season is - 6.3 million yes just six mill
Last year was minus 54.4 million
So there net spend is less than half of ours
You don’t need to spend money just need the right game plan for the players you have ( this was done on the official transfer website)
Shows moyes class doesn’t it From relegation favs to knocking on champs leauge door for less than 65 million
We in same time have a net spend of over 120 million.