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07 Sep 2021 16:18:13
The big thing is that Bielsa made Orta a success. It was not Orta that made Bielsa a success. Without Bielsa coming along I don't think Orta would be still be with us.

Agree3 Disagree0

07 Sep 2021 17:34:13
1970 - that’s small-minded BS. Now you’re trying to take credit away from Orta for Bielsa being here.

As we all know, Bielsa has not been successful everywhere he has gone. It was Orta who had been studying Bielsa for years and had the vision to see that there were the correct ingredients in Leeds, as a Club and a city, to be attractive to Bielsa as a project, and for that project to be successful. That’s why he suggested it to Radz, and put his job on the line for it, saying he (Orta) should be sacked if it didn’t work out.

Yes, Bielsa has done the business since he got here, but he wouldn’t be here to do so if it wasn’t for Orta. And Orta is doing a good job in trying to help ensure Bielsa is supported in achieving success in the present, and developing a legacy of future success in term of infrastructure and youth players. While Bielsa will only commit to a contract one year at a time, he is very focused on developing sound foundations to sustain the Club in future years, whether he is here to benefit from it or not.

07 Sep 2021 17:35:21
bang on the money Leeds1970.

07 Sep 2021 17:57:20
Think Clueless reminds me of Bermo and his views on Kalvin playing for England. There are times when if you don't want to always justify your name you should learn when to cut your losses.
Another point as Kenny Dalglish recommended the club to Rads, maybe it was someone else who recommended Bielsa to Rads.

07 Sep 2021 18:01:55
Even banger on the money Clueless.

07 Sep 2021 18:21:28
Even more banger on the money Leeds 1970 (lol)

Clueless is clearly a staunch defender of all things Leeds United and jolly good too

but his incredulous defence of Orta re JKA debacle in particular; indeed is becoming a tad reminiscent of the Berm with KP.

07 Sep 2021 18:39:34
Leeds1970, that's a baseless accusation you offer at Clueless. If anything your post is the issue. You make statements without any factual backup. At least Clueless offers his opinion with facts

Stop the lazy stick prodding.

07 Sep 2021 21:15:05
To be fair Orta was responsible for bringing Bielsa.

07 Sep 2021 21:39:40
Can we go back to banter please? “Banter”. Chit chat, gossip, rubbish talk. Ta.

07 Sep 2021 21:53:42
Can I Add please, that without Victor’s influence, and his weeks of work persuading Bielsa, we would possibly be still in the championship, or worse! Weebles wobble but they don’t fall down.

07 Sep 2021 22:00:01
Oh dear, 1970, I certainly don’t need to take any lessons about ‘learning’ from you mate. And I’m certainly not clueless by nature, only by name.

And Baz, I’m also certainly not a staunch defender of all things Leeds United. Even in my recent comments you should have noted that I believe the loaning of Ideguchi and Bouy to Cultural Leonese was a significant mistake, though not necessarily the buying of them in the first place, particularly of Ideguchi.

That guy was a rising Japanese star, who could, if handled correctly, have become an asset to our Club both on and off the pitch. On the pitch, he could have become a very capable number 8. Bielsa was very complimentary of his work and progress during the six weeks of pre-season, but because he had not been involved here the previous season, but left to rot on the benches at Cultural, there were two players here ahead of him in each position he could play. His development had also been hampered by the language barrier. Clearly being in Spain would have done little to improve his English. And it would seem that if he was given any help to learn Spanish, then apparently not sufficient to help in communication with Bielsa and his Spanish-speaking coaches.

Off the pitch, his active involvement with our first team would certainly have helped build support in Japan, both fans, and commercial tie-ups. As I said in a previous post, Ideguchi apparently hates Leeds United for the way we treated him, so if any other potential Japanese talent seeks a view from him before deciding whether to join us, it certainly won’t help.

The decision to send him to Leonese would not have been taken without the link to Aspire Academy (which owns Leonese) through Ivan Bravo, who was brought onto the Board by Radz. Unfortunately, as an employee of the Club Orta would have felt duty bound to help facilitate the working of that link-up, which would have included the loaning of Ideguchi and Bouy.

Theoretically that link-up could have been beneficial to the Club, but no benefit was forthcoming and in addition to transfer errors it almost certainly accounted for the very ill-advised trip to Myanmar, with Aspire being heavily linked to football development in that country. On reflection, Radz may rue his decision to bring in Bravo, and possibly feel that the latter saw a link to our Club principally as an opportunity to further the development of Aspire’s various business interests.

Jumping forward to the present, I think LUST are right to question our Club’s link-up with SOCIOS. If the Club feels there are any benefits to fans through the fan token scheme, it would have been better advised to work with LUST and our fans more widely to find a club-specific vehicle for delivering those benefits. One of the main criticisms of the fan token schemes more widely is that they are seeking to monetise fan engagement. SOCIOS themselves respond to that by insisting that they are not there to take money off fans, presumably meaning their schemes are not principally for the Clubs’ financial benefit, but rather to facilitate engagement/ involvement particularly for overseas fans who are least able to attend matches. But actually, SOCIOS themselves are really only involved to take money off fans, with 50% of revenue from the schemes apparently going to them, rather than the clubs. Besides, is participating in votes on such matters as which songs are played when a goal is scored or what picture should go on the team bus etc isn’t particularly meaningful engagement.

The Athletic undertook a really good investigation of these schemes which unearthed the other ways in which SOCIOS, or rather Chiliz, the company which developed the scheme, and it’s owners and others far removed from football and/ or other sports industries into which they are rapidly insinuating themselves benefit from, and through which any unwary supporters who may be hoodwinked into buying/ trading large numbers of tokens as a demonstration of their wish to engage with their clubs, could potentially loose significantly. I guess that most on here probably don’t subscribe to The Athletic, but others such as The Square Ball and The Roaring Peacock have covered the matter, so you should be able to find plenty of free material on it, and I would encourage all to educate themselves on this issue.

08 Sep 2021 08:32:22
hmm so following a quick skim read Clu on the latest war and peace post everything is hunky dory except for a couple of things.

08 Sep 2021 09:37:17
Baz. Now you’re even managing to contradict yourself. You suggest that my post is rather on the long side, but then suggest I should have kept on writing.

You seemed to be trying to devalue what I was saying in contradiction to your view on Orta by suggesting I was blindly accepting of all that had been done at the Club under Radrizzani’s ownership. I was merely illustrating, with a couple of examples, that I am very capable of seeing when mistakes are made at our Club and happy to state as much.



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