07 Sep 2021 10:58:32
Baz - returning briefly to the previous discussion on JKA and Orta. You say that had I lost my place of work £21m, I’d be picking up my P45. Perhaps that would be the case if that was the only thing I had done, but not if I’d also formulated, and seen through a project that had seen the company step up to a whole new level of operation, which was worth at least £150m income a year, and most of the key employees of the company increase significantly in performance and value, with some getting global recognition, enabled the company to attract a higher calibre of new employees. And I would be expecting plaudits for headhunting high performing trainees from other companies before they became established members of their senior staff and therefore far more costly to recruit etc etc.
Radrizzani recognises that in any business, employees, and even the owners, can make decisions that prove, with hindsight or otherwise, to be mistakes. But luckily, unlike some, he contextualises matters and he takes the view that so long as lessons are learned and the overall contribution of that employee is positive, there is a benefit to them remaining within the Club. He has also made it clear that if he felt his own involvement with Leeds was having a negative impact on the Club, he would sell up.
All things being equal, I understand that his and Orta’s view is that the time to walk away from Leeds will be when their joint aim of getting us established in Europe has been achieved.
07 Sep 2021 12:52:43
Clueless I am sure you recall that my original post that started all this off clearly acknowledged that Bielsa was Orta's finest hour (and the reason Orta escapes critcism from the lenient rose tinted brigade amongst Leeds supporters ; rose tinted OP for example stated as such in his post about himself)
Radz and Orta have been riding on Bielsa's coat tails ever since his appointment but it should alsways be noted that without talisman Pablo Hernandez ( not an Orta signing of course) even then Leeds would still be languishing in Championship even with Bielsa.
other than that excellent decision to recruit Bielsa, Orta is responsible with the long list of dross that he has recruited money wasted on JKA and Costa £35 million for starters.
With £150 million spent in the past 2 seasons Leeds should have a MUCH STRONGER FIRST TEAM SQUAD than it does.
Even the snake Gary Monk when he was at Leeds made arguably more consistently good transfer decisions (than Orta) with very good signings of most especially Pablo but also Ayling, Jansson, Bartley and Rob Green
This second season needed to be about improving the first 11 with 2 even 3 top quality signings to push for Europe ( though at least hopefully Dan James can make a difference )
Realistically Leeds under Radz and Orta ( without Bielsa if he were to leave and 2 or 3 of our better players if they were to be sold and no doubt not properly replaced by Orta) will not have a cat in hells chance of ever getting Leeds into Europe let alone establishing Leeds in Europe, bottom 6 relegation battle will be much more likely.
Leeds need far better than Orta as DoF.
07 Sep 2021 13:28:26
Who is better than Orta Baz?
Who would you employ in that role.
07 Sep 2021 14:14:43
I am sure there are many better DofF than Orta Canada, as to whom that is the owners task.
07 Sep 2021 14:48:39
Baz, the owner is not up to the task of finding a new DoF so it's down to you.
Use your in-depth knowledge of all things DoF and list us the qualities of your ideal candidate.
To date Radz obviously sees Orta as being the correct choice. You need to make your contribution for the good of Leeds. Its down to you mucka.
07 Sep 2021 15:10:30
Axe my ole facetious mucka sure thing.
07 Sep 2021 15:16:45
Baz - the haters’ problem is that while most of you accept that Bielsa coming to Leeds is an Orta success, your default position seems be that Orta has poor judgment on the transfer market, and any successes like Raphinha are just cases where he got lucky. If you believe in good luck, you should also believe that it is possible to have bad luck.
If a player, with no previous history of significant injuries, such as Forshaw, subsequently picks up a significant injury problem, which develops complications leading to almost two seasons out, that would to most people be a matter of bad luck. However, for the haters, it’s Orta’s fault.
If a player who has no history of significant injury is brought in on loan to replace a another loan player who has been recalled by his parent club, then develops a recurring hamstring problem, while trying to get up to speed with Bielsaball quickly, that should be seen as bad luck. But because it will probably cost us a large amount of money, the haters want to blame Orta, so when articles alleging previous poor fitness come to light, those haters quickly latch on to them, and refuse to accept that his performance stats at the time totally contradict those allegations.
Because in your view Orta has poor judgment in the transfer market, you can’t believe that, had Pablo not already been at the club, we would have recruited a playmaker capable of fulfilling the same role - indeed it is likely Bielsa would have insisted on it as part of his original deal in coming here.
Likewise you can’t believe that, should Bielsa leave, Orta would be capable of bringing in a manager who could take us into Europe, or if some of our better players were sold, he could spend the money wisely in replacing them.
You blame Costa on Orta, but it was Bielsa who was messaging Radrizzani throughout the 2019 summer window asking what progress had been made on recruiting the player. You blame Orta for Rodrigo, who some suggest Bielsa must have been forced to accept. Why then did Bielsa personally call Rodrigo to help encourage him to sign for us? - bearing in mind that he doesn’t usually personally involve himself in contact with potential signings.
07 Sep 2021 15:43:12
Clueless my final comment on this thread because enough has been said by all on it
but since when has Orta or Bielsa even replaced Pablo ( let alone be the ones that signed him)
07 Sep 2021 15:59:46
There’s a legendary Director of Football at Seville, by the name of Ramon Rodrigues Verdejo, otherwise known as Monchi. Surely there must have been someone who worked there under him and learnt all the secrets of his success that we could bring in here……. Oh, wait, you say some guy called Orta worked there with him for years, yes, I think I’ve heard of him somewhere.
07 Sep 2021 16:56:32
So Orta is so bad you can't name a single person you'd rather have in the role?
Maybe he's not that bad after all.
Here's more food for thought, if he was that bad don't you think Bielsa would have said 'hey I'm doing miracles here and that guy is making my life harder, get me someone else right now who has a clue how to do this job'. If Bielsa had complained and nothing happened he'd walk, but he hasn't, enough said!
07 Sep 2021 17:00:51
Baz - Bielsa apparently believed Rodrigo could take the CAM role, as well as covering Bamford, and that Roberts would be able to. They tried to bring in Cuisance last summer to provide an option at both 8 and 10, but his medical unexpectedly showed an almost imperceptible stress fracture in one of his feet, and it wasn’t felt the risk that Bielsaball might cause a recurrence or worsening of that injury. After that transfer fell through, Raphinha was bought in, and there seems also to be a belief that he could play at 10. Maybe that will be tried once James is fully inducted into Bielsaball. Forshaw’s possible return seems to have postponed the addition of further cover at 8.
Doubtless squad depth at 4, 8 and 10 will be reviewed between now and the January window, which may also factor in the extent to which various U23 players are ready to step up, whether just as subs or even potential starters.
Despite some people’s misconceptions, Orta can’t, and doesn’t try to, make Bielsa accept players. If Bielsa doesn’t want a particular player or doesn’t believe he can justify the Club bringing in additional cover for any given position, it doesn’t happen.
07 Sep 2021 17:05:13
Spot on Canada.
07 Sep 2021 17:54:13
Baz - you clearly know a lot about the role of DoF, as you’re very confident in your criticism of Orta on here. So you must have in mind some real DoF heroes who could show Orta a thing or two at Leeds.
I could name a few who would be likely to do a good job here, but that would be doing your job for you, and besides, as you know, I reckon Orta’s doing well on the whole.
07 Sep 2021 18:07:59
Lmao
I kinda think everyone needs to get their trunks on and in to the hot tub to cool off a bit
Baz your most welcome to join us but it's on the proviso that you don't criticise my pool cleaning operative. And no one will berate you your stance even though you don't back up your criticisms with much fact.
07 Sep 2021 19:35:17
Yep ok I kind of promise Axe just hope your hottub guy is not called Victor MOT.