04 Apr 2016 14:50:15
I had a discussion on this site with George the other day about ST renewals, with the theme being that certain clubs/ owners abuse the fact that a loyal fan base will continue to renew irrelevant of the ambition or investment by the club. This is not solely a Leeds United problem but does point to a skewed correlation between ticket prices and performance/ investment in the case of Leeds United (and a couple of other clubs) . Stats taken from an article in the Guardian for 20115/ 16 Championship ticket prices (Cat A and ST) show Leeds cheapest ST is the fourth most expensive behind Hull, Brighton and Ipswich, with their most expensive ST being 7th behind Fulham, Ipswich, Sheff Wed, QPR, Brighton and Birmingham. In terms of CAT A prices our cheapest is 11th most expensive while our highest price ticket is joint 3rd. Lots of stats to digest but I am of the belief that you 'get what you pay for'. Is that the case with our current pricing structure? There are those (me included) who will renew out of loyality but I will certainly not have an issue with those who decide not to because the club has a responsibility to show commitment if it expects it's fans to do so.
04 Apr 2016 17:20:25
Notts
Good post as usual from you. Let's not get bogged down in stats though. It is what it is. ST renewal prices are somewhat skewed from Ridsdale era. That said you have hit on the key word - loyalty. What ought to sting Cellino into cheque book action is the notion that renewal of STs will slow down to a crawl. Voting with feet worked to rid us of Bates. Same should be done with Cellino. Suggest creation of protest on social media hashtag don't renew your season ticket at Leeds. If Cellino has any shred of true love for the club he'll respond by spending big. If he does little or nothing not only at this point will it hurt him more than it will hurt us it will mean he never had any serious intention of investing.
#don'trenew.
04 Apr 2016 17:51:43
#celliNOrenewals followed by a cheeky #upthewhitesdownthepints
MM.
04 Apr 2016 18:00:26
I totally agree. To change behaviour often needs 'pain' to be inflicted - which in MC's case would seem likely to be a big hit to his wallet and/ or his ego. Also, all in the industry can see what a farce his ownership entails so how about the FL showed some standards to protect one of its largest clubs.
04 Apr 2016 18:05:08
i agree prices need to be looked at, I do personally think results should not bare any difference between going to support your club or not. As long as the players on the pitch are trying and playing for the badge that is enough for me, only one team can win and only three teams can go up so I don't expect that to be us, and if we go down so be it.
George you act like MC has not put money in pocket, he has spent quite a bit on players in his time here (better than anyone else since we went bust) so I don't see where this bias is quite coming from. Also do not agree with don't renew campaige why would any fan say to other fans do not support our club?
loyalty is a big word and something fans should be. While no leeds fan can be called a glory hunter I think not going because results and performance is not great is not really what love for a club should be, get annoyed have a moan but boycott is a little too far IMO.
04 Apr 2016 18:43:03
Bermo
You are seemingly fine with mediocrity. I am not. Many other Leeds fans are not. I acknowledge the club has had historic problems and debt but imo there always comes a time to gamble otherwise what you have disappears. I don't want to see Cook Taylor and Mowatt play for other clubs. We are not meant to be a feeder club. By gamble I don't mean Ridsdale proportions I mean 20m on new players. The reality is I don't see ST renewals going well until that happens.
04 Apr 2016 19:39:18
Top post George, you're absolutely right, it's gamble time or we'll be stuck with this mediocrity for years to come . 20 million and I think we'll be there, in the promised land. And the Italian one will reap the rewards once we get there, and, if he didn't already realise, he'll see what a massive club we really are.
04 Apr 2016 19:43:12
spot on G, BW it is that kind of blind loyalty which attracts a certain type of investor (so to speak) in the first place. IN business terms when fans turn up for their teams regardless of how rubbish they are its like shooting fish in a barrel.
. Money for old rope in every sense of the word and we've all seen more than enough ropey performances in recent years.
I firmly believe that one of the things which forces KB out was the fan base voting with its feet and while he sold us to a right shower we desperately needed to be rid of him no matter what.
I still retain a bit of hope that MC MAY do something significant next season with the PL TV deal increasing desperation of FLC clubs to climb on board before they pull the ladder up but he is well and truly in the last chance saloon.
Im all cliche'd out after that, . i'm off to bed.
04 Apr 2016 19:52:02
i am happy to have leeds, I nearly lost leeds and do not want to lose that again. I would love us to up but don't think that is likely I would go as far to say we have no right going up and do not belong in prem under recent history. Mc has done decent job under ken bates I longed for mediocore and do not expect greatness overnight.
what makes we wonderabout your post is this. we are championship club with no ground, have not had prem money for over decade, been in mountains of debt and you think 20 mill is not risdale proportions overspending. We don't even have great support and some silly fans have turend on mc and you think pulling 20 mill is resonable? wed fail FFP.
you seem to be bit off with the maths or want us to go bust or have unrealisitic tagets.
When I went ER MC had lots of support so it seems most leeds fans are on my wave lenght and live in this world.
04 Apr 2016 20:17:02
I was at the Huddersfield game and did not see much support for MC. I heard plenty of chants against him from dough and north stands.
04 Apr 2016 20:40:54
was you not by the Bremner and the club shop with the in massimo we trust banner which had plenty of people clapping it and having picture taken, also lots of chants, the chants against mc must of been muted as I didn't hear them?
two people think 20 mill is resonable maybe I am the deluded one.
bates sold club as he had nothing else in club to sell, also big difference between bates and mc but if you can not see that their is not point me posting what it is.
MC out but spend 20 mill fist please!
04 Apr 2016 21:08:34
To be fair I came through the underpass to the East stand. Need to get them tabs tested BW, chants from the south stand every home game against MC. I was not far from where you sat and clearly heard them and do most home games these days.
04 Apr 2016 21:58:51
I'm with Bermondsey on this one.
04 Apr 2016 22:35:19
Fair enough Wex, I must be hearing things.
04 Apr 2016 23:52:31
Cannot understand this blinkered view of Cellino. What has he done that is so good? I must agree with George on this one. We seem to be here every season and have been for at least last 5. Our season is usually over and where just looking towards next season hoping that this is the one where the leapod changes it's spots (owner) and properly funds the coach/manager. Or we can have at best another mediocre season. Villa are a classic example of what happens when you carry on doing the same thing. Keep swimming near the plug and eventually you'll fall in. But no doubt if that happens some on here will blame previous owners, players who we pick up for free because no-one else wants them, the fans because they were nasty to the owner and shouted at him, the useless coach, who was the only one who would do the job for the pittance he was being paid. Anyone exempt the fantastic businessman that is Cellino, who overpaid because he was too stupid to do DD.
05 Apr 2016 02:16:19
Top posts from Proc and Deda.
05 Apr 2016 07:30:18
There as been no chanting in support for Cellino at both home or away games, regarding the two lads at the Bremner stand with in Massimo we trust flag they were quickly dispersed for there own safety.
05 Apr 2016 09:33:04
Aggro that is not true I was with them both with my little girl, they were there for at least 30 minutes with lots of people around them, they left quite peacefully of their own accord. I saw this with my own eyes.
Deda it is not a blinkered view this has been gone over time and again and no one has ever post any sense against this, it is the hate that is misplaced and blinkered.
Yes his manager appointments were bad they have got better over time and now he is (wrongly in my opinion) showing the manager fiath and giving time.
Yes he needs to stay away from the press, his comments are often bad/ mad
yes pie tax and few other ideas have been bad
yes he should of done due dilligance (thank god he didn't as we would be in trouble)
yes we could have a better owner
now where the blinkered faith comes from and why I think the against are misplaced.
if not mc who? we do not have a buyer no one with sense would buy such a rubbish club and investment
MC did not put us in this place everyone before did mainly the dumb risdale and evil bates, MC gets a lot of heat for things that he is trying to fix from others
invesment figures of 20 mill on this site are laughable
people have shown him hate hounded his family and then wonder why he don't spend his money
he has spent money he gave money before he brought club and has invested a good amount on players (even if they have not been great buys)
the main main point which is anyone can answer please do but as of yet people have all the moaning but keep quiet when answers are needed. what happened if he wasnt at the club? their would be no club. what happened if he left? Bates again? GFH? or again no leeds at all. so yes good one MC out brigade
finally yes things are meidocore which for leeds is good, we should be leauge one club at best, like it or hate it leeds under MC are over achiveing as considering recent history and accounts we have no right doing better than the clubs below us
I wish things were better but I am grateful they are not worse. if anyone can make a decent answer to my points please feel free but I have been saying this for over a year and as of yet not got an answer in any way shape or form?
MOT.
05 Apr 2016 09:37:04
also Aggro if what you put was true I would be disgusted. if any leeds fan had to quickly leave er for own saftey from other leeds fans the fan attacking should be hung. and if you saw this why did you not help? I know I would of. it was disgusting what happened in istanble the worst moment in our history and the idea that fans had to move quickly for thier own safety in ER (or anywhere) has made me really angry and feel kind of sick to the stomach. I would also say the same if the banner had said mc out, I don't agree but would protect anyone attacking them. Thank god I did not see that with my own eyes and pretty sure that didn't happen.
05 Apr 2016 10:52:52
I will ask Mystic Meg BW, she is probably the only one who can answer you questions ;)
05 Apr 2016 11:53:48
BW
You argue passionately as usual, but you admit his managerial appointments have been bad. You would also have to concede that, his treatment of his staff is diabolical and has/is leading to numerous employment tribunals. His dodgy dealings and tax fraud trials have hampered the club. The pie tax is an utter discrete and has turned the most vocal part of the ground against him. The guy is unstable and this results in the Leeds hating press being able to create any nonsense story,and everyone's first reaction is it could be true. I would agree that the attacks on his family were wrong,I'm sure we could all agree on that. I would apologise on behalf of all Leeds fans, to his daughter personally. Don't believe we have to throw daft amounts of money around, but we have to pay market rate for players. If not they go elsewhere, and usually score against us.
05 Apr 2016 12:30:16
BW in any walks of life whether it be football, politics, race could be many things, when you have a divide and show your support there's always going to be friction which can lead to abuse and violence unfortunately and best way to avoid this is to not get involved, and believe me Leeds United would still be here without Cellino, end of the day he's a crook, compulsive liar treats other humans inexplicably bad and failed the F&P test, he's unstable and so is the football club.
05 Apr 2016 12:33:11
i do admit his bad points but some seem unable to admit his good points and that he is the best chance leeds have and no one else wants us. no one admits our ground and and tf are rented meaning our gate profit is probably lower than other teams with lower attendance.
if we are a poor league one team how can we compete with championship? I agree you have to pay going rates but what if we can not afford to?
i agree the management was bad but has got better does he get credit for that?
also he is a passionate man if we love him and get behind him he would be more likely to spend. be honest if you was massimo would you spend anything more than bare minimum? which I think he is spending above that amount tbh.
i don't think he is the best chairman ever but I would rate him 6/ 10 and think we could do far worse. for years leeds has been a 1/ 10 club and is still onl a 3/ 10 club. we were on our knees we are now standing but barely and some people think mc is wrong for not running before we can walk
mediocore is the best leeds can hope for and expect I think at the moment. mid to low table in championship is probably a good season for a club in our state.
05 Apr 2016 14:57:53
Remember when Cellino said he would purchase the ground? His good points are that he us not bates or GFH. I agree with Speedy and think Evans is a dead man walking. Leeds fans will fall out over most things. Anyone who remembers Adamson as manager, will remember fights breaking out in the kop, as calls for the manager to go rang out. This pre - season could be Cellino's Waterloo, if he fails to invest there will be large protest against him. Don't agree with the idea that if we are nice to him he may invest. He bought the club,if he's any kind of businessman, he must see that the only way to rid himself of the Massimo out brigade, is to fund the club properly.
{Ed001's Note - is that not the Dutch national team?}