Leeds Banter Archive October 26 2014

26 Oct 2014 20:52:26
The more I think about it the more peed off I get with the whole situation. The man quits his job, apparently bought himself out of his contract, to come and work for Leeds.
New country, different league and probably never heard of 90-95% of the players. Out the door after 6 games! What coach with any kind of pedigree will even consider taking a job with the mad Italian? Unless Redders can perform miracles and turn around our season, we are goosed! I hope that Redfern does just that and proves to be an excellent 1st team coach because that is our only hope left. MOT.

Nice thoughts Corky. However as I see it only problem with Cellino is that he won't listen to anyone. He interferes too much. Furthermore both his coaches have been exceedingly bad choices. He should have gone straightaway with a proven manager with FL experience then maybe we would have still been with first coach.

I have not seen any games recently but the definition of stupid is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Being pro-active as opposed to re-active. but he was apparently neither. From what I read, Darko was not changing anything in 2/half despite the opposition changing tactics. and so we lose again. But as a coach, with his experience, can he not see a change was needed or did he see it but decide to do nothing? Either way, he was not doing anything. A game lasts 90 minutes and changes must come or else the final whistle will come first. Several games were there for the winning but his inability to see that has cost us (and him) dearly and so he let a defeat be snatched from the jaws of victory. Must do better and with 6 games to do it and not change suggests he may not be what we were looking for.

Agree octopus, from what I saw and from comments darko made to media before joining leeds it seemed he had a game plan which he didn't like changing, he never adressed the problems and we got found out again and again. I always said before defintion of madness is doing same thing and expecting different results I wanted darko out for a while due to this

This is in relation to total football discussion down the page. couldn't be bothered to post down there
I remember
Red star belgrade hammer bayern munich. Obviously in europe. Think prob 70s or 80s. Can remember thinking. How will anyone ever beat rsb?
Anybody else see that game?

Sorry Ausman RSB well before my time, I am wondering who will be able to stop the Chealsea juggernaught this season though very good team IMO

26 Oct 2014 18:03:56
We are just like Chelsea. Can't hold on to a lead, and only 4 shots on target.

Yea and seem to have recaptured their fergie time spawn

Speedy
3 more games like that n morinio faces the sack ;)

26 Oct 2014 17:23:06
I see Kasper's dad talking carp in a tabloid. He thinks Cellino wants a big name for coach and because of this Redfearn won't get the permanent job. Bitterness no doubt due to way we treated his son. His prediction poor. Hockaday and Milanic were utterly unknown.

26 Oct 2014 13:25:01
I just hope that if redders fails to get results he still gers his old job back instead of leaving good coach hard to replace!

I think that had Redders not be given the job he would have taken a managers role elsewhere and then we would have lost him altogether.
I just hope that should he not succeed, MC keeps him at the club in some capacity as he is the last area of stability that we have.

Don't think that will happen peterbrough

26 Oct 2014 12:11:28
Now it's time to fear for NR

He's obviously an excellent youth team coach, with all the youngsters coming through and he needs to be given a break at some point

But IMHO now is NOT the time

26 Oct 2014 11:01:55
Rightly or wrongly, he has gone now and it looks like Redders will get a longer crack at the job. My hope is that he is the best person available to take us forward and if he is then Please Please give the man a chance.
We are fast moving towards a situation where the only mgr/coach who applies will be desperate and unemployed. All the good ones will not touch it with a bargepole given MCs meddling and the probable temporary nature .
I always feel that the greatest care should be taken in selecting a manager by the most knowledgable and analytical of peoples and if after all the investigation is complete and if he is the best then employ him and stick with him. Not just pick him because he looks good, wears the right clothes, or talks a good game over a cup of coffee.
A proven good manager does not become a bad manager overnight.
MC should have looked at Darkos results and style at both Maribor and Sturm Graz before employing him. If he played defensive/conservative there then why should he be much different here.
If you look at a track record of 30+ managers in 20+ years then just maybe the problem lies with the owner and he should let other people do the recruiting? He has done a good job for LUFC but his seemingly autocratic style, short temper and patience is not serving us well for any sense of continuity.

Spot on Leodis.
Cellino is like a child with a new toy that he doesn’t know how to work. Inevitably he will end up breaking it.

26 Oct 2014 11:11:44
makes you think what b mc would of done with this bunch but mc didn't want to pay 750k in wages

I really do agree, MC needs to take more care in selecting a manager and a manager is the most important position to feel. As I have said before I would rather a great manager and average team than great team and average manager. I must say there are a couple of points I do not agree with, One is that we are getting near a situation where only coaches who apply will be resperate or unemployed. Yes we may not get the best or a few might say no to working with MC but I always feel pro footballers need an arrogence to make it pro and this is what makes them think they will be the one to turn this club around. Also money talks and working for mc is win win, do well keep job do bad get sacked and golden handshake and no one in football will think less of you because everyone knows what MC is like so no dent to image or status. The fact MC has so many coaches must mean no lack of supply. Also while I hate the instability MC was like this at Calgri and he did so well with them maybe this work for MC and his club (no idea how but they did constantly over achive in MC's 20 odd years). He is like a kid with a toy but his toys seem to do well even if we do not really like how he treats the manager of his toy so to speak. in 22 years MC had something like 30 coaches yet they did well year after year maybe this works look at watford? (before anyone jumps on me I dotn agree or like his style just saying on the pitch there must be some good things as the results don't lie if that makes sense)

Bermondsey, I get your drift, but, are you saying the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, Real Madrid, Barcelona, have average managers?. Then again I would say Liverpool, at the moment have an average manager, managing an average team. Think this time BW you are wrong, good managers generally manage good teams

Oh no I am not saying these great teams have average managers they have great managers and of course the better the team the better the manager generally. I am just saying if I had to chose just one I would opt for manager over players as I think a manager is that important (Aladice at West Ham and Pulis at Palace are the most obvious examples at the moment and fegerson leaving man u the other). But of course not suggestion the great teams at the moment have anything less than both good players and managers that is why they are so good

Bermondsey, once again I get what you are trying to say, but I would say your two choices, (Allardice & Pulis) In my opinion, are & never were great managers. Do you really want to go back to the Pulis method of one dimentional football, ie miss out the mid field huff it as quick as you can onto Crouches head. Allardice has a similar thought when Andy Carroll is fit. WHUFC are playing some nice football, but great managers nah

I hear people defending MC with his record at Cagliari however it does not hold up. In his 30+ years at the helm Cagiari had a brief flirtation with Europe but most of the were either in the bootom half of Serie A or in Serie B. Which begs the question how good could they have been without the Tinkermans short patience span. Even the best managers lose games even Ronaldo/Messi have barren patches. doesn't mean they should be sold after 5 games, no goals. I hope redders (or whoever) has the cojones to say to MC, if you want me leave me alone and give me time.
I am still optomistic about the future given a little bit of tweaking on the pitch we have enough talent in depth to give anybody a game. It may even mean a few defeats along the way but "supporters" (and MC) have patience and keep the faith.
We Will Come Good

You are of course entitled to your opinion however I will agree with the pros who gave pulis manager of the year last season what he did at stoke making them long term prem team and what he did at placae was great imo. Also aladyice has been upsetting big boys for years and his team should of gone down last year as they were ravagaed with injuries. Forget style and think results results is what will get leeds in prem. any style is a bonus so for me that fluff is not enough to say no to three points (if you can not have both). lots of people to make barac team play good football and win they have great players, however what pulis and alaydice get out of lesser players I think is great. Also please remember we were very much a direct team under Wilko when we got promoted, come fourth then won league after that wilko tried to make us play more and we went down the league table. to slat them is to slate our last championship winning team. I would love to have barac players and play and win like barac but in reality I would happily play like pulis or aladice and be where west ham are at the moment (are they 3rd in prem atm?) I know the ugly football they play beat city yesterday. results first style a very distant second for me

Bermondsey, I think now you are begining to lose the plot. I am 68, I have supported my 'home' team since the early 60's. I remember well the team & the football Howard Wilkinson put out, so don't even attempt to go down the road of me slating my own team. As for Barca, (i'm assuming that is who you are referring to when you call them several times barac) living in Spain I see Barcelona, Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Valencia etc.etc. on a weekly basis, the football they play is a joy to watch, with managers who know how to play flowing, easy on the eye, inteligent football, no huff ball from these teams.While I agree to some extent, Tony Pulis kept Stoke City in the Prem, his style of football was never to my liking.

26 Oct 2014 18:31:40
I must agree with Bermondsey, I am also in my 60's and remember Revie's team, who knew how to win ugly and how to win with style, which correct me if I am wrong is what Bermondsey is trying to say. If you can not win pretty just make sure you win. I remember going a lot to see the last great team of Mr Wilkinson and it was a very direct team which based on the head of Lee Chapman. Hard to break down, direct front to back and effective, very effective in fact. Wilkinson's team was the last Leeds team to overachieve as Pulis and Allardyce's teams do. Everyone would love total football at Leeds but this is not likely so would it not be better to settle for direct ugly football but walk away with three points Spain? What would you prefer ugly win or pretty loss? I think this is Bermondey's only point and one I agree with

Sorry I don't know if I am not explaining myself correctly or if you may be missing my point. I love the football barac play (cant spell highly dysliexic) I would love leed to win playing like this but to play like this you need wonderful often very expensive players, let's be honest how many teams can play like barac? Not leeds not for many a year anyway. While I am not a fan of pulis or aldacye or wilkinson's style of play I think it is effective and helps teams overachive which leeds need to do as a championship team, will can not and will not be able to play like barac and buy great players but we could be hard and effective and this is a good way to overcahive and get back in prem. I would rather win three points but if had a choice I would rather win like pulis than lose another way. You remember Wilko's team and how we played under him tell me we were not direct? tell me how wilko set up his team more like barac or more like pulis? you must of not been a fan of direct football under wilko but I bet you were a fan of the promotion title we won and the three points we often picked up? Please understand I am not saying pulis plays the best football I am saying he overachives and after years of underachivement I want leeds to overachive and wouldn't mind if we did it the pulis way? if you had to chose what would you prefer or do you think it is resonable to say we should be playing and winning like barac?

Bermondsey, I remember well the Howard Wilkinson era, I also remember the direct football we played. In 'those days' that was how football was played. What I am trying to say is, today's good teams (I've already named a few of them) play football on the deck, that is why they are so good. LUFC, this year are trying to play football on the deck, we have some wonderfully talented young players, some have come thru' the academy, some have natural ability to play on the deck football. We all want the best for Leeds, we all want Leeds to win every match, but do you really want to go back to the days of Colin's huff ball boring football. I would sooner we play attractive football & lose a few matches, than play the boring huffball football, ( which we were playing until recently) which is no guarantee of three points anyway.

Oapjudge, ugly direct football is no guarantee of 3 points, no more no less than attractive on the deck football. I know of the two what I would rather watch.Incidentally, where were you a judge?

Not sure football was played like that back then, seems a very broad thing to say. pretty sure total football was about before then and sure players like bergkamp, gullit and van basten were all playing football in 90's sure they were not playing hoofball. the teams you mention are class above most teams and bit out of our reach I feel. Also please understand this, the teams you mention are great. great players and they win as they should. The teams I mentioned leeds under wilko, pulis and alladyce teams overperform. barac win so they should they have messi, nyemar and suawze. But should leeds of won league should stoke and palace stay in prem, should alaydce got the results his teams have got over the years maybe not. overperforming and direct football seems to be the best way to do this. Not saying it grenteed points of course not saying it seems best way to be effective, it seems best way to overperform with lesser players do you not agree with that one point? Colin did great with leeds let's be honest the situation we were in we should of got religated and only cloins style kept us up. I can not believe you would rather lose a few games at the cost of style seems very odd. I would rather win anyway possible I am fans of revie and wilko who would never agree with dropping points at the cost of style. I guess we must agree to disagree

27 Oct 2014 09:41:19
I spent most of my career in the midland's before spending the twilight of my career in Kent, why do you ask? Is there a reason you currently live in Spain? Also with regards to Mr C's record in Italy while you may question the clubs success I am sure it can only be considered the club's golden period as they really are not a top tier team.

26 Oct 2014 09:49:58
I'm really glad darko has gone, no experience in the championship
BUT what worries me is if MC is thinking of only using Redfern as caretaker manager until he finds a manager who knows the league, who would be interested in running the club which has seen 3 managers in 5 months? F@@ked if we do f@@ked if we don't! We need to settle the ship

I too worry about Redfern as the choice I am not privy to the everday workings at TA or ER and if he has all the credentials then so be it IF NOT then scour the land for the best, get him and stick by him. It seems to me the best performing teams thrive on continuity (or bags of money) not 3 changes in 5 months

26 Oct 2014 09:26:15
Just a small point on those pointing to say we are becoming a laughing stock amongst other fans and commentators.
When have we ever given a f**k about what other people think?
All I care about is how we do. Let them laugh all they want. They won't be laughing when things start to work out, and start to improve. And they def won't be laughing when they come to ER in the premier league!!

Love it speedy and here here, get stick everyday mate for being dirty leeds and wouldn't change it for the world. that said better results would be nice, don't like being laughing stock for how bad we are playing but don't mind if it is because our chairman is mad as a box of frogs

Well said Speedy,
BW look on the brightside our results can only get better I hope lol

I am sure they will I am confident of top 8 fisnish. I love MC I love our players some of them are prem players IMO and now time to make things click and hopefully become a bit more stable and stop people like me calling for managers blood

26 Oct 2014 08:18:22
Not sure what the position is with Refearn is. He is taking training on Monday. I presume it is as caretaker coach. If it is permenant(if there is such a thing) I would be concerned. Redfearn is good at what he doing with the academy but I think 1st team coach will be beyond him in the long term. Just hope we get a manager with decent experience in Engish football and MC sticks at being president. Don't think it will happen. Could be a very tricky season in spite of all the previous optimism.

Hess
I agree but if you don't give NR his chance then you risk another team offering him his first opportunity and losing him from the a cadency anyway.
On that basis he deserves his chance and I wish him well, just hope he's given longer than a month if things do t start well ;)

Agree redfern had to come in longer term and I think it will work out quite well, we certainly will not go down with redders at helm something that was looking very possible under darko. let's support redders and the good players he has as we climb up the table. I am putting a £10 on leeds to make play off final anyone else with me?

Well BW, agree apart from the tenner. I'll keep my tenner in my pocket and give it to you if we make playoffs this year. I'll still be happy with top 10. Now I think we have a chance of making that

True speedy top ten is improvement and as long as we improve no one can grumble really not even me

26 Oct 2014 07:56:08
Blimey, just finished a 24 hour shift at work to hear the news, decisive action or what. All I can say is I think we are in good hands. don't wanna hear about Redders win percentage, he was only a stop gap at difficult times and his win percentage this season is second to none. He knows the league and players inside out, he knows our club the same. He wants the job and believes he can do it. that's all more than good enough for me. let's give him all our support and patience because we need stability now MOT

Well said vid. Pointless looking about is previous records, they were with different players and owners. I truly hope it works out for him, he's Leeds through and through. It may not of course, but at this moment I can't think go anyone I would rather have to steady the ship - but as I said below, he needs the rest of the season. I think we have a decent bunch of players and feel confident he can get as much out of them as anyone else can